Love & Personals – Women and virgins... "Hey - who broke the safety seal on this one?!". Here are some thought provoking questions on the impacts of a strong religious upbringing on modern sexuality.
Well...I have a question.....So what's wrong with someone wanting to wait until marriage and also find someone else who has waited. I'll be the first to say, that its not easy to find someone willing to wait.
We complain about the number of teen pregnancies, STDs, abortions, etc., but nothing is being done to stop it...if anything, we're seeing more and more sexual situations on the television as well as the big screen.
There are a lot of advantages to waiting, and I don't think that the people who want to wait should be discouraged.
Hi Kriicket.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with waiting for marriage as long a it's for the right reason - that it feels right for you - and not out of fear or guilt.
We just don't think that those who decide to wait should condemn those who decide not to.
"We just don't think that those who decide to wait should condemn those who decide not to."
It is not a matter of those who decide to wait condemning you for God Himself condemns you. "But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul. A wound and dishonour shall he get; and his reproach shall not be wiped away." Proverbs 6:32-33.
It is not a matter of choice. God has already made all of the decisions concerning morals. For you, it is simply a matter of obedience or disobedience. "This do and live..." "Choose life..." "Why will you die..." God's way works perfectly and leaves you with no regrets.
Nothing is wrong with it. If you want to wait you totally should. But, just as people should not be discouraged from waiting people should also not be discouraged for not waiting. You know what I mean.
Nothing is wrong with it, but one will miss out on one of the most enjoyable parts of life for quite a while, possibly forever.
Moreover, nothing is wrong with unmarried sex so long as both parties are agreeable to it, there is no coercion, both understand the risks. And as for the risks, there are of course more risks in life than just sexual risks. Almost every activity in life involves some risk. Does this mean we will avoid these activities?
I appreciate the frank discussion of this. It has amazed me how much of an issue this is for people in their later 30s even. I don't know how anyone can expect someone to be a virgin at that age. Certainly it can be done and there are many reasons people choose for it but I've heard of many instances of individuals feeling guilty and/or being judged for their "past indiscretions" at the age of 36 or 37. And often the anger and judgements are expressed by those who also hope to have a very sexually satisfying partner. Meanwhile it seems everything around us is sexualized, including nearly every Walt Disney movie accompanied by little flesh toned year round costumes for little girls. It's a recipe for disaster when you really look at all the mixed messages. That question of "will it ever end?" is appropriate!
My wife was in her 30's when we married and was still a virgin. We dated for two years before we married, traveled all over the world together and still didn't have sex until a few weeks AFTER we were married. Sex is a tiny, insignificant part of a happy marriage. We're approaching our 60's now and still walk hand in hand everywhere we go, have never had an argument and have a great sex life. Would I have married her if she weren't a virgin? No. People don't change. Party girls party, stupid girls remain stupid, neither one is a good choice for a wife.
Why do you think only stupid party girls enjoy sex? Maybe in your generation, but I had sex with my wife a lot before we got married. She wasn't a party girl, and she's far from stupid. She just enjoys sex. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
And I'm sure that, when you're sixty, sex does seem insignificant. But for a 25 year old it's pretty damn important!
Didn't say there was anything wrong with enjoying sex. But it is better for all of society if it is only available in marriage. And it wasn't all that long ago that I was 25. Sex was no more important then than now, it is never important. It is an old, archaic drive from our distant past that has lost it's importance. It is but one minor pleasure among many in a happy marriage.
"But it is better for all of society if it is only available in marriage."
Maybe for pre-industrial societies, but Western Europe doesn't have the same stigma that the US does and their teen pregnancy, abortion and STD rates are far lower than our own. (Source: http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/PUBLICATIONS/f...
"Sex was no more important then than now, it is never important."
Maybe not to you, but I find it one of the most fun things my wife and I can do together.
?Western Europe doesn't have the same stigma that the US does and their teen pregnancy, abortion and STD rates are far lower than our own."
Yes and they are no longer even reproducing themselves. Western Europe is dying, they are losing their nations to immigrants. Many of those who are having children are doing so alone, as single mothers. It isn't working folks but I don't really care,I moved most of my assetts into safe havens years ago, someone else can pay for this "social experiment." It was easy to see it coming. When I was in high school, the only thing my classmates got out of reading "Brave New World" was the sex. They totally missed the real message. The author was right: Give the public sex and drugs and they will be blissfully happy no matter what the government does. Anyway, not my problem. And yes, it's one of the most fun things my wife and I do too, but it is of very minor importance in the big picture of loving each other.
I recently had a discussion with a Gay Catholic friend about his religion. I was also raised Catholic, but have recently started attending a Presbyterian Church instead - the Catholic faith just has some oddities that I cannot agree with. I was surprised to discover that he holds fast to the beliefs of the Catholic Church.
He attends mass, but does not receive Communion, because he believes he is not living in a state of Grace. He believes (according to the Catholic tradition) that sex is intended for procreation only, and that since he has it for other reasons (i.e. pleasure), he is sinning. Since he has no intention of stopping this "sinful" behaviour, he will not accept the host under false pretenses.
I was amazed. I didn't think that people still believed that "Every Sperm is Sacred". Imagine how sexually deprived people would be if they had to wait to be ready to have a child (or another child) in order to have sex (again)!
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There's a safety seal? Crap, nobody told me.
Look, I figure you wouldn't buy a car that you're going to have for five years without test driving it, why in the name of whatever you find holy would you not 'test drive' your mate that you're (possibly) going to have for a lifetime? It just doesn't make any sense.
Most of the hooey that we have relating to marriage can be traced back to the Middle Ages and feudalism. Religion got sucked into it because the Church benefited enormously.
Do I know the original feelings of Jesus or Mohammed on the subject? Nope. And neither does anyone else.
If you love somebody take them to bed, but be sure to respect all sides of the arrangement and NEVER, EVER take that person's feelings for granted.
I couldn't have said it better m'self Bkumm.
Thanks.
Safety Seal-lol I love it!
If during the "test drive" she gets pregnant what then?
Ever heard of a condom? There are also other methods, usually the one that works best is the woman on the Pill and the man with a condom. Regardless, unless she is your longtime monogamous girlfriend you shouldn't be having sex without a condom in any case.
Ever heard of a leak?
Hence why I said the Pill as well. Yes, I have. Happened to a friend of mine, fortunately they were scheduled to be married a couple of months later. No worries.
I always say: If there's not at least two forms of birth control it's not sex. It's conception.
The only issue I have is with the 'test-drive' analogy. It makes women little more than property, and makes their ability to pleasure you sexually their prime use in marriage. A much better test-drive would be to go babysitting with them (to see their parenting skills), or to start an argument with them (to see their conflict-resolution skills), as these will likely both play a larger part in the marriage-to-come than sex itself.
If you both want to have sex before you marry, go ahead, but don't pretend it's so that you know what is in store in your married life. It's because you want sex! Yes, some people are probably more talented than others at it, but I think it's a skill pretty much anyone can learn.
Don't ditch a partner because they suck in bed. Teach them. If they're insensitive, selfish, unwilling to learn, stubborn, etc... then maybe it's time to ditch them.
Hmmm There is only so much teaching one can do-
"The only issue I have is with the 'test-drive' analogy. It makes women little more than property, and makes their ability to pleasure you sexually their prime use in marriage"
HMMM! So the woman doesn't get a test drive. I thinks she could get a good feeling for whether her possible partner is a caring giving mate or simply in it for his own pleasure. Sorry I think the test drive benifits the woman more than the man.
Why does the "test-drive" analogy always imply that the man is "driving"?
The woman can be the one "driving". It does not have to be the man.
Also, it is possible to "share" "driving". :)
From everything I have heard or read sex is a very impotant part of a marriage. How sexually compatible you are will be a big factor in a marriage's success. There is more to intimacy than sex, but it is a big part.
And you say to ditch them if they are unwilling to learn. But why would someone go through marriage only to get an expensuve divorce when they could have figured out they had a selfish partner a lot earlier?
Absolutely true. Married sex is completely different from dating sex.
Dating sex is like a glass of water in a rain forest. Married sex is like a glass of water in the middle of a desert.
Sure, but wouldn't you want to see if you needed to take them to Sex U or just a refresher course at the local Y? Also, sometimes, people just aren't 'right' for each other in that way, no matter what.
I had a girlfriend once that was really into some crazy funky stuff. I didn't know this when we first started dating but I am much more sedate than she was. I really liked her, heck I might have even loved her, but the first time we went to bed and she wanted me to choke her I decided that it wasn't going to be for me. And this was a very nice, churchgoing, professional, well respected woman.
You can't judge the book until you get it under the covers.
Well... you could have frank discussions about sex without ever doing it... and chances are, if you're both virgins, neither one will ever awaken the inner 'choker'
Test drive? How crude. Wonder how many test drove your wife before you "bought" her. Gee they got it for free and you're committed for life (and half your assetts.) Not smart.
I'm sure it was a couple.
The test drive analogy stands. It isn't crude at all. It's the same thing. It is a period to decide if this car or this woman is right for you (if you're a woman then it's car and man). Sex is a HUGE part of marriage and if you aren't sexually compatible you are in for a long dreary road.
I have daughters and would never want to think that a man would compare sex to test driving a car. When do you plan on test driving a woman? after one date? two? Do you wait to fall in love? What if you are in love, take the test drive and the woman is not all that you wanted? Would you drop her?
As for Dan & Jennifer, they are quite foolish. They do not have the first clue as to what true Biblical Christianity is. The Catholic church teaches what the Pope teaches, even when different from God's written word. We who are born again Christians go by God's written word.
As for true Christians and sex? Dan and Jennifer have no idea what sex can be like for us, though they sure want to think they know. It is obvious that they want to believe that true Christians are sex-starved. I have news for them. We are free to have sex, appreciate it and love every moment alone with the one we love, the one we married. The Bible encourages sex between a husband a wife.
Debra...
I think it's funny that a lot of people think that men test drive the women. Can't a woman also test drive a man? I should hope my daughter has a full sex life with a partner who can please her and doesn't settle for mediocre sex.
I would hope my daughters would marry men who love them enough to wait for them.
A woman who marries a man who would wait would assure that he loves her and puts her ahead of his own desires, which is the thought pattern of a man who DOES please a woman in bed.
Good sex begins in the heart and in the mind. It stands to reason that a lazy self-serving man out of bed who puts himself first, will be the same inside of bed.
And if a couple messes up and does have sex before marriage: There is such thing as forgiveness and moving on from there. It can be brought back to where it belongs. However, it is always best to start right.
djms...
If your daughters choose to wait, I agree they should find a man willing to wait for them.
But why is it that so many people see men as the pursuers and women as the pursued? If my daughter wants to have sex, I'd hope she finds a guy who is willing to put her ahead of himself in all areas. That doesn't mean she should wait for marriage. It means she shouldn't sleep with jerks. And, accordingly, I shouldn't be teaching my daughter not to have sex, I should be teaching her to pick her partners carefully.
#1 clue that a man is a jerk or at least behaving as one:
He won't marry your daughter before wanting her to give herself to him.
djms...
And what if my daughter wants to give herself to a man before she gets married? Or are women not supposed to feel those kind of urges?
When your daughter has sex, before or after marriage, depends on who your daughter honors.
I'm sorry, but that went completely over my head. Care to translate from "Bible Thumper" to "Liberal Atheist Heathen?"
Deb: How do you feel about sex education? What about older unmarried people, over 21? Should they do without sex because they are single?
The best place for sex education is at home from mom and/or dad. If parents want their child to be taught sex education at school, it should be the basics taught in a way to prevent the child from messing up before marriage.
In referring to "burning with passion for sex", God says, "It is better to marry than to burn." If people over 21 years of age want to have sex, they should be mature enough to get married.
God is not up there eating popcorn, watching down on us, saying, "Oh, let's see who will obey this commandment! ha ha he he oh oh!" God has his commandments for a reason, each and every one has a reason - a reason that benefits man.
djms...
"Do I know the original feelings of Jesus...on the subject?" Why not? They are clearly laid out for all to see in His Word. "Safety seals" and "test drives" are nowhere to be found. It is all about love and your relationship with Him. Without that, every relationship will be lacking.
I think my relationships with my parents and wife are fine without dragging a third party into it.
Yes, that third party stuff sounds lots like voyeurism or maybe a menage a trois.
Wow, the mental image on that one. Halo and all. "Truly, truly I say unto thee, this is yummy."
Exactly!